Tom Taylor's Notes, SIPPING IETF 57
Session Initiation Proposal Investigation WG
Monday, July 14 at 1930-2200
Thursday, July 17 at 1300-1500
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CHAIR: Dean Willis <dean.willis@softarmor.com>
AGENDA:
Note: minutes are organized under the headings of the published
agenda. Order of
actual consideration varied from that agenda.
Monday, July 14, 2003, 1930-2200
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1930 Agenda Bash
Chairs
SIP device reqts ad hoc 10-11 am Thur room J241/1
TSVWG is venue for QoS promotion scheme (Fri am)
1935 Status of Work (see slides)
Chairs
With RFC editor
draft-ietf-sipping-basic-call-flows
draft-ietf-sipping-pstn-call-flows
draft-ietf-sipping-overlap
IESG/AD Reviews
draft-ietf-sipping-3pcc
draft-ietf-sipping-aaa-req
Followup will be DIAMETER work in aaa WG
draft-ietf-sipping-mwi
draft-ietf-sipping-3gpp-r5-requirements
AD note to be attached
WGLCs
draft-ietf-sipping-e164
draft-ietf-sipping-dialog-package (discussed separately)
draft-ietf-sipping-qsig2sip (discussed separately) Need more reviewers:
Adam Roach, .... (see Rohan)
Short Status of other
WG docs
draft-ietf-sipping-service-examples
draft-ietf-sipping-cc-transfer
draft-ietf-sipping-cc-framework
draft-ietf-sipping-realtimefax
Might end up in mmusic
draft-ietf-sipping-torture-tests
More cases needed
draft-ietf-sipping-req-history
Individual docs: netannc -- discussion Thursday
osp ready to go when author incorporates LC comments
1955 SIP to QSIG Mapping Open Issues
draft-ietf-sipping-qsig2sip
Some WGLC comments received off-line
A number of related drafts
Call transfer interworking: discussion of action (re-INVITE to update
called party)
when transfer in PSTN
QSIG/SIP interworking doc still in progress
Allison wanted SDO contact. John to supply contacts at ECMA.
Key process issue: qualified reviewers
2005 Dialog Package Open Issues
Jonathan Rosenberg
draft-ietf-sipping-dialog-package
Went through WGLC. Minor comments incorporated. Unable to
restrict a particular
XML type in XML -- has only the accompanying text to provide the
constraint.
Issue: extensions proposed (Sean Olson). Question: what to do
with them? Extend
scope of main package, reject them, or document them separately?
Issue: "on hold". Not clear what "on hold" means, since media can
flow anyway.
Suggestion that this isn't a dialog state.
Rough consensus that we are not ready to advance the dialog package at
the present
time. Concerned parties are to discuss and report back to
Thursday mtg.
----------------
2020 Discussion of Configuration Issues
draft-ietf-sipping-config-framework
draft-ietf-sipping-ua-prof-framewk-reqs
Some open issues w/ profiles. No discussion.
draft-ietf-simple-xcap-package
Problem: potential conflict between XCAP package (SIMPLE work item) and
sip-config. XCAP fits into framework: config retrieval, change notif,
config upload. Differences in many details.
Ques: do they share the same reqts? Do they share the same
soln? Should they be
unified?
Proposal to unify led to comment that config is a much more general
problem -- may
not be reasonable to use SIP for notifications in view of more general
model coming
perhaps out of netconf. Jon notes this may reflect the views of a
number of people
in the IETF at large. Will have to have clear explanation of
scope.
Key point: all of the entities involved have SIP addrs. Fairly
tightly scoped.
Rohan proposal: merge or reorg the two drafts. Need an author
w/more cycles. Rough
consensus in favour, with some hums opposed. Locus of work to be
discussed w/ ADs,
noting two different areas are involved.
2055 Discussion of Session Policy and Middle Box Issues
draft-ietf-sipping-session-policy-req-00.txt
Dynamic vs static policies
-- Allison: not necessarily either/or
-- Jonathan just concerned to eliminate unnecessary reqts
-- CALEA an arg against dynamic policies
Rohan volunteers to work on mechanism if he has some help.
Ques on reqt for enforcement of policy. Asked to review text and
submit desired
changes.
draft-rosenberg-sipping-lease-00.txt
Informal group met. Embedded route headers prevent proxy appl of
policy and user
services. Leasing has a couple of other advantages.
Conclusion: leasing is the way
to go. Some issues re GRUU grants. Will add reqt that
leasing be stateless to the
reqts doc.
draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-00.txt
ICE status report
ice-01 addresses concerns raised in IETF 56
-- backward compatibility
--- case that breaks bkwd compatibility is multihomed
host. alt framework vs. alt attribute being taken into off-line
discussion
ice-01 has ~50 pages of example flows -- proposed replacement of
sipping-nat-scenarios
-- ice algorithm works out
-- troublesome case is v4-v6
-- need add call flow between ice and non-ice hosts
Ques from chair: if Jonathan adds the reqd cases, is this a sufficient
replacement
for what we have now?
Francois: add text to allow altn approaches (ALG, Midcom). [Asked
to provide text.] Remark (Orit): nice to have a doc showing how relay
works for MSRP. Conclusion:
include example showing operation with MSRP.
Various other ICE changes.
Process open issues:
1. Do we proceed, which WG? Helps with a number of problems.
-- main ice behaviour -- mmusic?
-- SDP extensions -- mmusic
-- preconditions -- if people care, would go to sip
(poss mmusic)
-- usage scenarios -- repl sipping-nat-scenarios -- sipping
Hum pro ice replacement for sipping-nat-scenarios
Hum willingness to do in mmusic or sipping as ADs direct
Conclude that it will replace sipping-nat-scenarios as WG item in
sipping or mmusic
as ADs direct. Not necessarily four documents -- first two items
can be combined if
both go to mmusic.
Need volunteers to take some of the docs
draft-audet-sipping-add-realm-00.txt
Add explicit realm identifier for private (i.e. "local") addresses
Useful in case both endpoints have a priori knowledge that they are in
the same
realm -- can avoid ICE.
Need to configure realm only if multiple media terminations behind the
same NAT
which will communicate with each other.
Config mech out of scope
Dave O: realm goes into SDP? Yes (presented later)
Can be used with ice -- current proposal based on ice-00, needs update
Optimize for avoiding unnecessary use of ice.
Proposes SDP attribute.
Jonathan: imposes assumptions about network topology on app
layer. What if cable
company interposes NAT between different users?
Francois: wouldn't use at home -- would use in corporate env. Argues
that phone-context is the same issue. Jonathan counter-argues
that
phone-context is broken only when phone moves, whereas realm can change
because
something changed in the network remote from the user.
Requires list dicussion. Burden of proof is on Francois to say it
is worth varying
from general appl of ICE.
2125 Open Issues from Conferencing Design Team
Orit Levin
Conceptual issues
resolved: basic conf by SIP, adv would use XCON (they
hope). Design team almost done its work -- general comments
welcome. draft-ietf-sipping-conferencing-requirements HL Poss.
reduce scope to SIP/SIPPING reqts if XCONF accepted Open issue:
discovery that UA is a focus vs discovery that
draft-ietf-sipping-conferencing-framework
draft-ietf-sipping-cc-conferencing SIP
To do: add details for selected msgs in presented call flows
-> sip draft for mechanisms
One open issue
draft-ietf-sipping-conference-package
Needs another rev e.g. re sidebar conversations
Looking to future draft on implem of sidebar
2140 Open Issues from Transcoding/Deaf Design Team
Gonzalo Camarillo
[draft-camarillo-sip-deaf-02.txt]
Resuming design team meetings
Transcoding has dependencies which may be isolated in a separate draft
2150 Report from Energency Calling Design Team
Gonzalo Camarillo
Scenarios doc to appear within a couple of weeks
Additional topic: reqts for SIP service config (3GPP relationship)
Proposal: extend config framework to include service info
Which server to contact for data manipulation (XCAP)?
Download conference-factory URI for automatic conf creation
...
2155 Padding
Thursday, July 17, 2003, 1300-1500
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1300 Open Issues from Application Interaction Design Team
Jonathan Rosenberg
draft-rosenberg-sipping-app-interaction-framework-00
draft-jennings-sip-app-info-01
[draft-burger-sipping-kpml-02
WG accepting framework and KPML as work items. Big fight is over
how digits are
reported. INFO needs a dialog. Implicit subscription gets
messy with multiple
subscriptions or forking. Explicit subscription has routing
problems. Possible new
method or MESSAGE -- big fight over matching of semantics.
1320 Discussion of Media-related Issues
draft-camarillo-sipping-early-media-02.txt
-03 pretty well convergent, ready for WG
draft-mahy-sipping-tones-00.txt
Could use MIDI.
Jonathan: fits into app framework
Eric protests we are getting too close to Megaco
Looking for views on whether of interest.
draft-burger-sipping-netann-06
Had issues: resolved by ignoring as much as anything
==> Info RFC
1350 Discussion of Event Filtering and Throttling
Aki Niemi
draft-niemi-sipping-event-throttle-reqs-01.txt
Updates
Accepted as WG item
1400 Discussion of DPNSS to SIP interworking
Ranjith Mukundan
draft-mukundan-sipping-dpnss-02.txt
No WG interest. MIME registration will proceed as an individual
effort.
1410 Discussion of End-to-middle Security
Kumiko Ono
draft-ono-sipping-end2middle-security-00.txt
Use cases: IM logging, hotspot services -- partially-trusted proxy,
transcoding,
Jonathan's session policy
Models: 1) communicate with trusted proxy, next hop not unknown
2) communicate to
trusted proxy via element of unknown trustworthyness.
Proposed mechanism: S/MIME EnvelopedData.
Number of open issues.
Interest? Form? -- split?
Jon supports.
Jonathan wants more use cases -- what triggers UA's use of encryption?
Global policy -- headers.
This and Mary's draft both require ability for middle to add body
parts. Hum pro further development. Reqts to be WG items.
1435 Discussion on Phone-related Status and Presence
Jonathan Rosenberg
draft-rosenberg-peterson-simple-pidf-phone
1450 Discussion of Diagnostics in SIP
Alan Johnston
draft-johnston-sipping-rtcp-summary-00.txt
Delivery of RTCP summary reports to third parties i.e. for logging.
Possibles: forking, carrying in SIP BYE, event package (preferred)
Esp-ecially the XRs Need bot6 directions? MIB?
Eric: feature creep
Francois: supports -- need to boil down to essentials.
Cullen: much-requested feature. Should state the problem in terms
of the desired data. Plug for the rmon draft.
Henry: not a management issue.
Avaya: different reqts for different uses of SIP.
==> Authors to try to reframe based on comments?