Log of sip@jabber.ietf.org during SIP session 1 at IETF 67 davidbryan@gmail.com joined the chat (12:53:24 PM) dwillis has set the topic to: SIP indeed between meeings (12:53:24 PM) 12:53:41 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: ping 12:53:52 PM paulwouters@jabber.org: pong? 12:54:07 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: thanks...just making sure my client was happy before I scribed here...sorry xmlscott joined the chat (12:54:25 PM) mlepinski joined the chat (12:55:49 PM) jfischl joined the chat (12:56:28 PM) lemmakin joined the chat (1:00:52 PM) ericc joined the chat (1:01:14 PM) bhoeneis joined the chat (1:01:22 PM) ekr joined the chat (1:01:28 PM) 1:01:30 PM paulwouters@jabber.org: we could use louder audio nan_626 joined the chat (1:01:38 PM) miah.ness@gmail.com joined the chat (1:02:19 PM) 1:02:19 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Paul: are you remote? still having trouble hearing? 1:02:21 PM paulwouters@jabber.org: anyone near the mixer to turn audio up? Jabber-Wile joined the chat (1:02:24 PM) ysuzuki joined the chat (1:02:29 PM) 1:02:36 PM paulwouters@jabber.org: david: yeah i am remote. i just hear faint voices far far away 1:03:03 PM jfischl: sakuma.macx joined the chat (1:03:03 PM) 1:03:12 PM paulwouters@jabber.org: whoever asked for better audio came out clearer then the speakers 1:03:23 PM miah.ness@gmail.com: different mic jr111 joined the chat (1:03:32 PM) danwing joined the chat (1:03:55 PM) richard.barnes joined the chat (1:05:34 PM) 1:05:46 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: (We've asked to have the audio looked into now...) 1:06:26 PM paulwouters@jabber.org: david: thanks. I'll wait for a bit. but at the moment i can't hear it unless i put ear on speaker. 1:06:43 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Ok, we'll see what we can do 1:07:07 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Topic: Outbound Changes and Issues, Rohan Mahy 1:07:30 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: (let me know if rohan is clear...he is on the lapel mic) miki joined the chat (1:07:43 PM) 1:07:45 PM paulwouters@jabber.org: nope. soft too. 1:07:47 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: 'k dwillis@jabber.org joined the chat (1:07:52 PM) 1:08:13 PM bhoeneis: http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/06nov/slides/sip-3.pdf 1:08:36 PM dwillis@jabber.org: hello all. Will try and monitor here ... but if I'm not looking, feel free to yell if something is needed. 1:10:26 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Looking at list of agreed changes from slides... now 2/2... 1:12:18 PM bhoeneis: Late change: new response code 1:12:28 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Late change discussion: New response code. 410 and 480 are bad. Proposing 430 "Flow FailedA" 1:13:34 PM richard.barnes: "Flow Failed" 1:13:41 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Asking for objection to the new 430 field 1:13:46 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: code, sorry 1:13:57 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Next addition: stable flow timer 1:14:54 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: JDR: What is the use case of when a flow is not stable? 1:15:10 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Rohan: bad nats, poor coverage... 1:15:10 PM paulwouters@jabber.org: it is now louder. thanks! 1:15:19 PM dwillis@jabber.org: Cool! 1:15:20 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: (great) 1:15:40 PM paulwouters@jabber.org: good. now i can actually listen to it. thanks guys 1:15:52 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Issue A: Verify outbound support on first hop or all hops? ttfr joined the chat (1:15:52 PM) cullenfluffyjennings@gmail.com joined the chat (1:16:30 PM) 1:16:40 PM bhoeneis: There seams to be a version mismatch between Rohan's presentation now and the slides on the server... 1:16:41 PM dwillis@jabber.org: It's Fluffy! 1:16:55 PM dwillis@jabber.org: Which server, bernie? 1:17:14 PM dwillis@jabber.org: IETF or softarmor? 1:17:26 PM bhoeneis: ietf ekr left the chat. (1:17:38 PM) 1:17:39 PM bhoeneis: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/meeting_materials.cgi?meeting_num=67 1:17:45 PM dwillis@jabber.org: hmm . . . keith downloaded these from server at start of meeting . . . 1:17:55 PM dwillis@jabber.org: try refreshing, as I had uploaded teh new oens just before meeting. 1:18:54 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: (not on softarmor, btw...link to this talk from slides page goes back to the slides page) 1:19:25 PM dwillis@jabber.org: It's on their, but the link is missin in the index.html. Will try and fix when I figure out hat is happening with IETF page 1:20:01 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Rohan asking if there is obejection to making the change... 1:20:45 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: (slides presented are older...not the version online...) 1:20:46 PM dwillis@jabber.org: slides on server are right. Presenting wrong ones dwillis@jabber.org left the chat. (1:20:50 PM) 1:21:04 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: (please stand by...getting the right slides) 1:21:18 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: (Dean? Are these the right ones now?) 1:21:40 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Bug A: need to mention rport 1:22:51 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: explaining that putting rport in via and send from the port prepared to recv on 1:24:05 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: JDR: Please add reference to the NAT Scenarios document 1:24:24 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Rohan: Will add...put in notes to ensure that this is put in as an informative ref jantzgu joined the chat (1:24:34 PM) 1:24:38 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Now discussing Issue C: max-flows parameter dwillis joined the chat (1:25:13 PM) 1:25:53 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Proposal: defer this issue for now 1:27:03 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: JDR: Need to negotiate this...need behavior to deal with it. Prefer normative text. 1:30:03 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: 1:31:38 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Discussion about max number of flows...debate about what architectures would limit size in what way 1:31:50 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: 1:33:09 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Some mechanism needed to limit traffic... 1:33:20 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Rohan: do we address this here now? hb47713 joined the chat (1:33:58 PM) 1:34:08 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Rohan: Is limiting the number from reg/authoratative proxy something to do here 1:34:22 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: More people seem in favor of deferal 1:34:40 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: discussion will move to list 1:34:49 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Issue D: First Ep supports... 1:34:52 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Skipped 1:35:04 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Move to issue F: Detecting instance-id binding rules nan_626 left the chat. (1:35:35 PM) dashi joined the chat (1:36:41 PM) 1:37:36 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Cullen: thinks this is wacky, lets not take this to list, Can we do this in another draft if it ever comes up? dumdidum joined the chat (1:38:18 PM) 1:38:25 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Decision on F: won't make a change, if there is an issue later, will do it with another draft 1:38:32 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Issue 3G slide 1:39:18 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Binding behavior without flow tokens 1:40:21 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: What to do about 3G (next slide) 1:40:25 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: 3 alternatives proposed 1:44:24 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Dean: too much discussion. Sidebar? jr111 left the chat. (1:44:36 PM) 1:46:13 PM dwillis: i wish 1:46:35 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Most in support of option two...looking to see if there are strong options to option 2? 1:46:47 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Chairs: Seems to be concensus on 2 1:46:56 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: will go to the list 1:47:13 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Vijay 1:47:18 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Gurbani 1:47:26 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Domain certificates on SIP 1:47:37 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/sip/draft-gurbani-sip-domain-certs-03.txt dwillis@jabber.org joined the chat (1:48:06 PM) dwillis left the chat. (1:48:15 PM) 1:48:17 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: first slide -- outline problem 1:49:05 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: next slide. Solution... 1:50:04 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: WG list discussion slide 1:50:33 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: What to do next? Become a WG item? ekr joined the chat (1:50:58 PM) 1:51:30 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: JDR: this work may be obviated by an alternate solution. 1:52:58 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Jon: Good to keep certs for SIP similar to those used for web 1:53:06 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: new tech here is difficult 1:57:57 PM paulwouters@jabber.org: DNS can be used. See sshfp and OE / IPSECKEY records 1:58:17 PM paulwouters@jabber.org: especially with dnssec deployed 1:58:17 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: (want that relayed to mic?) 1:58:29 PM dwillis@jabber.org: will do . . . 1:59:54 PM paulwouters@jabber.org: thanks. and DNSSEC regrading "you cannot trust the dns" 2:00:02 PM dwillis@jabber.org: ok 2:00:08 PM paulwouters@jabber.org: thanks spencerdawkins joined the chat (2:01:41 PM) 2:01:54 PM ttfr: ekr is the quickest speaker in the world ^_^ 2:02:04 PM dwillis@jabber.org: datsfirsure! 2:02:06 PM spencerdawkins: you aren't kidding! 2:02:43 PM paulwouters@jabber.org: don't we have X.509 attributes for that? 2:02:50 PM dwillis@jabber.org: yeah 2:05:48 PM paulwouters@jabber.org: How does this all related to ENUM? otmar joined the chat (2:06:01 PM) 2:06:13 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Chairs: write up their proposal, take to list 2:06:23 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: see if we can get this done as a call isudo joined the chat (2:06:55 PM) 2:07:00 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: next deck, still vijay 2:07:09 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/sip/draft-ietf-sip-connect-reuse/draft-ietf-sip-connect-reuse-07.txt jr111 joined the chat (2:07:15 PM) ekr left the chat. (2:07:19 PM) 2:07:37 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Current status slide... 2:08:17 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Changes slide 2:10:16 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Vijay feels document is complete 2:10:50 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Will discuss some on this DNS call. Will then deal with it 2:12:20 PM dwillis@jabber.org: anybody see where Dan Petrie is sitting? sakuma.macx left the chat. (2:12:34 PM) miah.ness@gmail.com left the chat. (2:13:42 PM) 2:14:56 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Is the work on this deck worth continuing going forward 2:14:59 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: ? 2:15:04 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: to the room... Aki joined the chat (2:15:32 PM) 2:15:42 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: "reduces number of connections between large proxies: is this enough to continnue the work?" 2:15:58 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Dean feels that 5-1 opposed to continuing work 2:16:02 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Anyone object? 2:16:06 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: (going once....) 2:17:33 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Consensus to table work 2:19:25 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/06nov/slides/sip-2.pdf 2:19:34 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: status slide sakuma.macx joined the chat (2:20:09 PM) 2:22:28 PM dwillis@jabber.org: Note that Dan just pointed out I had posted the wrong file (the agenda requests file) to the IETF proceedingds site instead of the agenda. I have corrected this obvious booboo, and if you are looking at the agenda from the IETF site, please reload. The agenda on softarmor was correct. 2:22:51 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: summary of changes from -02 version slide now ekr joined the chat (2:24:33 PM) 2:24:51 PM ekr: Is Mike Thomas in the room? 2:25:06 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: next slide...clarification of meaning of sips... 2:25:20 PM dwillis@jabber.org: haven't seen him. You looking for a rumble? dashi left the chat. (2:25:30 PM) 2:25:35 PM ekr: Just want to be prepared if we are goingto have one. 2:25:54 PM dwillis@jabber.org: I'll be ready to hide under the stage! 2:26:05 PM ekr: Don't you have your bowie knife? 2:26:15 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Slide: Dean's sips trial balloon proposal 2:27:02 PM richard.barnes: does Dean's second point imply that TLS MUST be used on every hop? 2:27:18 PM dwillis@jabber.org: yes. 2:27:33 PM dwillis@jabber.org: That's the source of why there's debate on the "no PSTN termination of sips:" 2:28:25 PM danwing: A media server, which holds my unencrypted voicemail, isn't "the PSTN", right? But someone left that voicemail using the PSTN.... 2:30:34 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: nan_626 joined the chat (2:31:11 PM) 2:33:41 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: 2:34:09 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Eric proposes delete bullet 4 entirely cullenfluffyjennings@gmail.com left the chat. (2:36:22 PM) 2:43:36 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Final mic comment... cullenfluffyjennings@gmail.com joined the chat (2:44:30 PM) 2:45:05 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Chairs: Now that there is a sense of what is going on, will increment into the document 2:45:52 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Concensus: 1 is out of place, need more thought on 4 (should?) and keep 2 and 3 2:46:09 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Jonathan on GRUU 2:46:24 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/06nov/slides/sip-8.pdf mlepinski left the chat. (2:46:32 PM) 2:46:36 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: visit www.gruu.com :) 2:46:48 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: top 10 reasons slide 2:48:03 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: slide on temporary gruu motivations cullenfluffyjennings@gmail.com left the chat. (2:48:18 PM) cullenfluffyjennings@gmail.com joined the chat (2:48:44 PM) 2:48:50 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: temporary gruu ladder diagram slide.... 2:48:53 PM richard.barnes: FYI: WHOIS says that these guys own gruu.com: 2:49:18 PM dwillis@jabber.org: I guess they distribute gruu . . . 2:49:19 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Also someone pointed out you get a much more informative page if you leave off www... 2:49:31 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: http://gruu.com 2:50:07 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: (which is the same page as cpdist it appears...) 2:50:17 PM dwillis@jabber.org: ah, that joint's point at the shared-serving-provider root page. 2:50:33 PM dwillis@jabber.org: It's a virtual-hosting configuration. 2:51:06 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Parameter renaming slide lemmakin left the chat. (2:56:01 PM) jr111 left the chat. (2:57:21 PM) ericc left the chat. (2:59:31 PM) 2:59:48 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Chairs: This will go to WGLC if we feel it is ok dashi joined the chat (2:59:58 PM) 3:00:09 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Question: all those happy with privacy model in this doc 3:00:15 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: hum was all in support nan_626 left the chat. (3:00:39 PM) 3:00:52 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: when asked as comfortable, not comfortable, or unsure/not enough info, unsure/not enough won 3:00:52 PM xmlscott: I just want it to stop changing 3:01:02 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: conclusion is that folks need more time to think 3:02:07 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: hum on if the parameter name change is ok? All in favor of keeping the parameters in 11 3:02:09 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: options 3:02:18 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: yes, opposed, no opinion/don't understand 3:02:37 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: most on the final 3:03:07 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: general consensus for 11, minority on 10, many don't care 3:03:19 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: Grid removal slide dumdidum left the chat. (3:04:21 PM) 3:04:49 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: final slides going very quickly... cullenfluffyjennings@gmail.com left the chat. (3:05:04 PM) 3:05:29 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: will discuss on Friday xmlscott left the chat. (3:05:36 PM) 3:05:42 PM davidbryan@gmail.com: meeting ends jantzgu left the chat. (3:05:49 PM)